- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- The Lounge
- →
- Deep Discussion
- →
- Should it be okay for black people to use the N word?
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Should it be okay for black people to use the N word? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2017, 07:15 AM (1,094 Views) | |
| + Steve | Sep 11 2017, 07:15 AM Post #1 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
|
When I say N word, I mean all of them really not the more friendly one. I think the whole concept of black people owning the words is a little ridiculous, having it be part of common conversation among blacks but riling up an angry mob if a white person so much as whispers it, regardless of context, only serves to perpetuate the racial divide. Not that I think the hard r version should ever be considered a friendly word or that white people should be allowed to say it as much as someone like Samuel L. Jackson or EVER use it as an actual insult. But I think the reaction people have merely holds society back, it just makes both groups hate each other more. Which is what always happens when you allow one group to do something and exclude another. That always fosters more hatred. How would we as a society go about giving the word less power? It's pretty absurd how much power it has compared to others. For instance anything derogatory towards women, you can argue that the N word has a massively negative history and you're not wrong but nobody gets up in arms about negative words towards women on the same level, even though for all known history women have been oppressed whereas black people have not. And they are in fact still oppressed on a pretty major level in many places, in a purely legal sense when it comes to stuff like religion where it's literally okay to treat women like human garbage. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's nowhere where it's totally allowed to be racist against black people is there? In a legal sense, obviously socially some places are very racist and absolutely that's not okay. That's not to say racism doesn't exist but we don't have slavery and lynch mobs these days yet we take the words FAR more seriously than anything to do with women. To put what I mean there more simply, it's clear that despite any negative history with anything else the N words are given far more power than any other and it's something that's constantly perpetuated with no signs of calming down. Is this truly better? I honestly can't see why it would be bad to lessen the impact the words have, so long as it's always considered a bad thing to use them to genuinely insult someone personally. Which goes for any racial slur obviously. |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
 |
 
|
| Bad User | Sep 11 2017, 09:21 AM Post #2 |
 
|
No. Even if you are black and are okay using it, maybe there are other black people out there that are not, so you should consider their feelings as well, not only yours. Also, in the second part of your post, were you talking about other forms of discrimination? Yes, there are many other forms of discrimination (based on sex, nation, religion etc.) that go unnoticed and are not that strongly protected by the law. In fact, we let all kind of 'politically-incorrect' gags or stuff slip through the media on a daily basis and are fine with that. I am all for utopia in this matter, but it's not gonna happen. For example, I come from a nation that's hated by half of the Europe and I also often assist to any sorts of discrimination in my environment (against women, for example). So seeing people lose their heads over a mere cosplay, for example, makes my mind blow. All in all, no. |
| |
|
|
| Goddess Ultimecia | Sep 11 2017, 09:51 AM Post #3 |
 
|
I'm not sure how it is in other cultures, but the main reason people don't use the hard -r, and the reason why black people hardly even use it, is due to the history behind the word, the incredibly recent history of the use of it. In an ideal society, that word would've never existed in the first place, and we wouldn't have more than two hundred years of its usage up until the 70's, and then outlined in conservative strategies on how to target minorities with policies that affect them negatively without directly saying the word when pandering to a part of their voter base. The same people that held those incredibly backwards views are still alive to this day, and have had kids that they passed their ideologies on. Even in the modern day, it's kind of hard to avoid the usage of it. Whether it be just walking on the street and you get fidgety neighbors that yell at you for walking on the grass, while you're driving. Or in the most egregious example that I remember, my parents saying they didn't want that n-word in their house (even though the kid was younger than 7) even though they were far away from their house and could've had any number of things happen to them had they been stuck out there. And mind, I'm from Illinois, we're not even the worst example of s*** like that, far from it. Although we have our own very unique problems, like former police chiefs just now being put in jail for beating confusions out of exclusively black people even though they had nothing to do with a crime back as far as the eighties. Or on a less heavy note, both local and state politics. As for legality, of course it's not okay to be racist, that still doesn't mean people give a s***. How things are viewed socially and how they're viewed legally are two different things. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's socially accepted or unaccepted. From pot to driving 80 in a 40 zone because you like the rush of speeding. I digress, legally you're not allowed to discriminate if you're a place of business, offer a service, or are a government institution, outside of that you're allowed to be as racist as you want, it doesn't mean people like it. You are allowed to say whatever you want, just as others are allowed to respond to you with whatever choice of words they want. You're free from being imprisoned for what you say, you're not free from the consequences of what you say. If you want people to just stop using the hard -r or for everyone to use it, you're going to need to go pretty damn far into the future where the era of history where that word was used, has been lost to time. Otherwise the word still carries baggage. As for using -a, its origin comes from the way other races referred to them as the hard r. In essence, wearing it on the shoulder and making the term their own. That's the in a nutshell version of it, the actual history of it is far more varied than that and has routes as far back at the sixties. I understand why people think they're one in the same, but they really aren't in the slightest. It's the verbal way women in the industry nowadays give a middle finger to lovely lady shaming and people crying about modesty by dressing as provocatively and as skimpy as they can get, and in essence "glorifying" it. And that's perfectly fine, both things are cut from the same cloth. Overcoming things like that via embodying is something that has worked in the past half century or so. If you ever wonder why women get uppity when you tell them to cover themselves, or why a black person gets offended by someone that they don't know using the -a pronunciation or even the -r pronunciation, it's because chances are that you don't mean that in good faith, and you'd outright have to be socially inept to not understand that before going up to them. I come from the Chicago area, and -a isn't as racially exclusive as you might think, it's transforming to refer to those that do go through the struggle of growing up poor in projects or just low income neighborhoods in general. Obviously not all communities are the same, but that requires time to change, you can't expect it to just magically poof into some idealized version. Rome wasn't built in a day. You'll probably be happy to find out that we are on a trend to becoming more liberal, so as that continues to go on, you'll find less stigma involved in certain words. Although why anyone would want to plant their flag on using the n-word is odd to me, at a certain point you have to temper utopias with the reality of the situation, and that reality is that the world isn't ready yet. For Americans in general, we're not that far removed from times (only 60 years) where you'd get the s*** beaten out of you and then murdered and left on a riverbank in front of your family's house for just whistling at someone that was a different colour than you. Culture is older than any one of our lifespans, and it's one of the most stubborn of mules when it comes to moving forward. Edit: Just learned Pewdiepie dropped an N-bomb as an insult, ouch. Edited by Goddess Ultimecia, Sep 11 2017, 10:44 AM.
|
 NinjaSushi Colouring
| |
|
|
|
| * Mitas | Sep 11 2017, 11:57 AM Post #4 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
|
Yes, if we're referring to the 'softer' version (as far as I'm aware, nobody uses the 'hard r' version in a friendly manner). Your argument basically boils down to people of another ethnicity feeling 'aww, why do they get to use the word and we can't?'. Well, tough s***, really. Everybody is theoretically equal, but not everybody has gone through equal experiences. Black people have had their specific past, and current, experiences and if 'taking back' the 'N word' is a way of them dealing with that, then that's their prerogative. If not being able to use the word makes you hate black people then you're a moron who was most likely already racist to begin with (not aimed at you Steve, just the point you brought up). It's not hard to see why this word has it's own set of rules, at least in a modern society not far removed (and still in) a time where it's used as a slur. However, it should still be considered a swear word, which I believe it is, so it should be treated as such by those using it. It shouldn't be assumed that everybody is on board with the use of swear words. Most people usually gauge their audience and adjust their vernacular based on that, and the 'N word' should be treated the same. Regarding your point about other words, I would disagree. There are other racial slurs that are just as outlawed, those referring to people from China and Pakistan as two examples. The only difference is that they haven't chosen (as far as I know) to 'take it back' (they also don't have as heavy a history, so aren't fully comparable, hence the higher impact associated with the use of the 'N word'). But if they did decide to take it back, then the same rules would apply. For women, sure they have had similar treatment in both the past and currently, but there is no one word to hang that on as there is with the others which means the 'impact' is spread across multiple terms. It's easier to ban one word. However, lovely lady, lovely lady, b*** etc aren't exactly considered polite talk (Edit: hence all three being filtered on this site). Also, you could argue that with the terms you could associate with women, they are insults usually aimed at people who have done something you believe has deserved your ire. Whereas with slurs, it's a general term aimed at anybody of that ethnicity. There's a difference. The former is still sexist, but the latter is more so (well, more racist than the former is sexist) because you are painting an entire ethnicity with one brush, rather than just those you consider bad. It's hard for me to explain, but I do believe there is a difference and that it contributes to the differing impacts. Edited by Mitas, Sep 11 2017, 12:28 PM.
|
 "Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 11 2017, 12:06 PM Post #5 |
|
Words are merely a combination of letters. We as humans give them meaning and power. A word only has the power that you give to it. I see no problem with anyone using the n-word with a hard r so long as they aren't using it in the same way it was used decades ago--to degrade and humiliate a black person merely because of the color of their skin. Any other use of the word in any other context is only viewed so negatively because of the magical powers we give to the word. |
|
|
|
| + Ginyu | Sep 11 2017, 12:21 PM Post #6 |
Leve Feyenoord 1!
|
If a black person is very serious about white people not being allowed to use it, then no. Either you believe the word is racist, in which case no one should be able to use it, not even black people, they never suffered from slavery, only their ancestors. Or you believe the word isn't racist in the right context, which means everybody can use it. For me personally? It's just a word and people will always look for excuses to be outraged. Grow a pair of balls. |
      Ask GinyuTokusentai | |
|
|
|
| * Yu Narukami | Sep 11 2017, 12:34 PM Post #7 |
|
Izanagi!
|
Come on, you're not really bringing up 'it's just a word', are you? And Doggo, can you provide any contexts where using the word with a hard 'r' wouldn't be offensive? |
|
|
|
| Copy_Ninja | Sep 11 2017, 12:42 PM Post #8 |
Novacane for the pain
|
Yes, it's fine for black people to use it. The word is a racial slur. It always has been and it still is. People who are the subject of a slur get to decide what to do about that. It's not like there is a consensus amongst black people either, there's a range of views. Some people don't want anyone to use it, some people are fine if people of their own race use it and (admittedly a minority) don't really care if white people use it outside of a direct insult. However, the word still quite clearly means what it means. You can't use a racial slur against yourself so a black person using it is inherently different. I really don't like the argument of trying to remove context from words. Words do have meaning because we have assigned them meaning. You can't just act like the last 200 years didn't happen, we still feel the effects of them today. We still have racial inequality today. It's really easy to say that it's just a word when you will never be on the opposite end of it. |
 We'll never be those kids again
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 11 2017, 01:18 PM Post #9 |
|
Check out iDubbz's videos. I think he does a good job of implementing "offensive words" into his comedy and does so in a way that isn't offensive. Another current example of Pewdiepie dropping the n-word mid-stream, although many people are upset with him because he could get YouTube ad revenue taken away again, so it may not be the "best" example. You could say the same about any word that a group of people finds offensive. Faggot, lovely lady, b***, c***, etc. are all words that have been used to oppress or offend people in the past. The difference here is that we now use these words playfully with friends and laugh at them, whereas we hold the n-word on some magical pedestal with yellow tape around it saying "do not cross." If one of my friends were to say the n-word to me with a hard r, I would hardly be upset. In fact, I'd probably find it funny. There's no offense there. I would never say it to a person I didn't know or advocate anyone saying it to someone at random, though, regardless of context, because you never know when someone could take offense or freak out over the power of words. |
|
|
|
| * Yu Narukami | Sep 11 2017, 01:21 PM Post #10 |
|
Izanagi!
|
This might be a super stupid question, but are you black, and have you suffered from the usage of the word and the discrimination/offence that it's connected to? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 11 2017, 01:22 PM Post #11 |
|
You asked for an example of when it wouldn't be offensive. I gave it to you. Now you just seem to be implying something that I didn't say. |
|
|
|
| * Yu Narukami | Sep 11 2017, 01:25 PM Post #12 |
|
Izanagi!
|
Yes, and then you went on to talk about how you wouldn't be upset when the word was directed at you, and I hardly see the relevance of that comment if you aren't the target audience of the word. And as for where it's non-offensive, I'll give you iDubbz, but Pewdiepie? No dice there, he used it in frustration as an insult. You've seen the clip, right? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 11 2017, 01:27 PM Post #13 |
|
Me being upset if the word is directed at me was still an example of an instance where it wouldn't be offensive. I can't police other peoples' offense, hence why I said I would never say it to someone random. If you can give me iDubbz, then you agree with me, no? |
|
|
|
| Copy_Ninja | Sep 11 2017, 01:28 PM Post #14 |
|
Novacane for the pain
|
Don't really agree with this. "Faggot" is still a pretty offensive word, I don't think it's generally accepted that it's okay to just throw that out there. Same with c***, words like retarded etc. I mean, you can say what you want in private around your friends. What you do and don't let fly is up to you and people can draw their own lines with what their comfortable with. But what is generally accepted as okay to say in public is different and if someone knew joined a group of friends saying those kind of words, they'd be within their rights to think that's offensive. |
|
We'll never be those kids again
| |
|
|
|
| * Yu Narukami | Sep 11 2017, 01:29 PM Post #15 |
|
Izanagi!
|
In specific cases where it comes to being informative and historically accurate, then yes, in those specific circumstances, you could say that it isn't offensive. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
 ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. Learn More · Sign-up for Free |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Deep Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:55 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy